Aesthetic AF - MedSpa Marketing & Sales Podcast

The Power of Niching Down in Esthetics: Holistic Skincare, Business Growth & Marketing with Ashlee Black

• Tara Dotson Riley & Sam Varner • Season 1 • Episode 3

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The Power of Niching Down in Esthetics: Holistic Skincare, Business Growth & Marketing with Ashlee Black

Episode Summary:
In this episode of the Aesthetic AF Podcast, we’re joined by Ashlee Black, an experienced aesthetician who made the shift from medical aesthetics to holistic skincare. Ashlee shares her journey of discovering her niche, navigating imposter syndrome, and learning to market her business in a way that aligns with her values.

We dive deep into what it really takes to build a sustainable esthetics business, the differences between medical and holistic skincare, and how to attract the right clients without feeling salesy. Whether you're a seasoned esthetician or just starting out, this conversation is packed with insights on business growth, marketing, and finding confidence in your expertise.

In This Episode, We Cover:

  • Ashlee’s journey from medical aesthetics to holistic skincare
  • How niching down can help grow your business faster
  • Overcoming imposter syndrome 
  • The role of social media, email marketing, and client referrals
  • How to attract the right clients without using sales tactics that give "the ick"
  • The importance of choosing skincare brands that align with your values
  • Building a marketing strategy that feels authentic 

🔗 Learn More About Ashlee Black:

  • https://www.ashleeblackesthetics.com/
  • https://www.instagram.com/ashleeblackesthetics


Join Our Community of MedSpa Owners: https://www.facebook.com/groups/salesandmarketingformedspas

Learn More About The Podcast or Apply to be a Guest: https://aestheticafpodcast.com/

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About The Hosts 🎙

Sam Varner –
A profit strategist with over 16 years of experience in financial services, public relations, and business coaching. She helps service-based business owners create sustainable, scalable, and highly profitable companies.

Tara Dotson Riley –
CEO of Tara Lynn Media (TLM), specializing in digital marketing, social media management, content creation, premium brand growth, and client acquisition strategies for medspa owners looking to establish authority and dominate their local market.

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Looking to attract high-value clients, increase revenue, and scale your medspa? The Aesthetic AF Podcast is your go-to resource for marketing, sales, and business growth strategies tailored for medspa owners and aesthetic professionals.

🎙 Hosted by Sam Varner (Profit Strategist) and Tara Dotson Riley (Marketing Expert), each episode delivers real-world insights and actionable strategies to help you build a thriving, profitable aesthetic business.

✔️ Stay ahead with the latest medspa...

Ashlee Black - Aesthetic AF

[00:00:00]

Ashlee Black: My name is Ashley Black. So I've been an esthetician now for eight years. 

I've been in aesthetics for 10 years. So I started in the industry a little bit after college, not with the intention of being an aesthetician at all. My aunt's an esthetician. I needed a job. She's like, hey, you need some help at the front desk of this, our med spa. Can you come help us?

Ashlee Black: And I said, yes, for sure. So, I'd always wanted to be an occupational therapist. That's what I went to my undergrad for. Was pursuing it and spent many years actually trying to get into school.

Ashlee Black: Came back to it two years later after working in physical therapy still wasn't getting into OT school. So my aunt, I was trying to move back to Houston. My aunt called me and said, Hey, we need help at glow again.

Ashlee Black: That's where I worked and you know, can you come help us? So [00:01:00] came. realized just how much I actually, like, enjoyed aesthetics at that point. I was older, wasn't 22, I was 25 started seeing the benefits of skincare and all those, you know, laser treatments, things like that. So, pretty soon after I started that job, became an esthetician, so went to, or went to school to be an esthetician worked there part time, school part time, finished pretty fast,

Ashlee Black: and that's what I've done for the last eight years, primarily focused on skin rejuvenation, the medical side of it, so. Okay. Laser skin treatments, medical grade skin care, like, there's the spa side and then there's the medical aesthetic side of it. They can merge a little bit. I did facials and then hydrafacial peels, things like that.

Ashlee Black: So I kind of, I got to understand the skin at a whole nother level though when it came to treating people with lasers. And that's really what I love doing. But now I am, you know, eight years later living in the suburbs. Have two young kids, another one on the way [00:02:00] and I got to a point that I just needed to find something that was going to be really flexible for me and my family, close to home, no more like commuting two hours out of the day.

Ashlee Black: And I just couldn't see myself working for someone anymore. As much as I, I had an amazing experience at Glow. I still work there two days a week right now, but it's just, and I've learned so, so much. And it's really cool to see that she's not only able to do it as a coach, both as a professional esthetician, but also even like the business side of it because it's owned by a woman.

Ashlee Black: The whole entire office is women. It's a small company. So got to see the ins and outs of just how everything is done. I mean, to an extent, right. I didn't know what it was like to be the owner. Now I have way more appreciation for everything that she does on top of seeing clients. But yeah, so I just couldn't see myself finding somewhere close to home temporarily when I knew that my end goal was always going to be to open my own space.

Ashlee Black: Yeah. I didn't know what that was going to look like, but essentially I just [00:03:00] kind of jumped in. So my daughter was six months old when I started my business and basically just rented a studio right by home. So there's the salons by JC. right down the road from my house. Made the leap, went and did a tour. They had a room available that was perfect. And I was like, okay, you know, my husband was on board. 100%. That was a big piece of it. Right. Having a spouse that can back you. commitment financially, time wise, all that.

Ashlee Black: My family and friends have been really supportive. So that's been a blessing is them sending their friends slowly growing my clientele. I've just now kind of figured out exactly what my niche should Okay. Was going to be. I knew what I wanted it to be. Okay. But I didn't have the confidence in saying, I provide holistic facial services.

Ashlee Black: There was a little bit of imposter syndrome. Like, I [00:04:00] have been in medical aesthetics for the last 10 years. Like, why would anyone come to me for holistic facials? But I am very much holistic minded love natural health, medicine, nutrition and partnered with a skincare line that is holistic, but also science driven results driven.

Ashlee Black: So that was, and that was my, like, kind of, like, tagline when I started was holistic minded, results driven. Thank you. And I started carrying a skincare line initially that just didn't align with what I wanted. But came across this new one called Green Envy this last five months or so. It looks more and more into it. I'm like, how did I not find this before? Like it was exactly what I needed there. Like I said, their tagline is holistic minded, results driven science backed, beautiful packaging, amazing products.

Ashlee Black: And they provide outstanding training for their facials, their techniques, their what's called Marma. Massage pressure points. So [00:05:00] using different pressure points throughout the face and the neck and the shoulders to really help someone relax their mind and body and soul and just really like connect in that facial.

Ashlee Black: So that's where I'm at right now. I officially was like, you know what? Like, there's no reason I can't say like I provide amazing holistic facials. Natural products, organic, non toxic, all those things. But I still have that education in skin, and understanding, um, what really does deliver results.

Ashlee Black: Yes, massage is great, but can we really change the skin? A little bit but we also need, you know, a lot of other things. And there's plenty of times in facials where I'll tell someone like, I can do this much for you, as far as facials and skin care and chemical peels go, but I'm like, you really need a photo facial.

Ashlee Black: So I would go find a med spa nearby, find an IPL, that's going to give you the results like exactly what you want because I'm not going to tell someone like, oh [00:06:00] yeah, I can get rid of your brown spots and your red spots with these products and this facial because I can't 

Tara Dotson Riley: so yeah. 

Sam Varner: So, as you've kind of grown, did you want to niche down because you knew you needed to? Or what was the trajectory of that?

Sam Varner: It 

Ashlee Black: wasn't anything clients were like looking for, like it's still like clients come in from all different backgrounds, all different like goals. Some are really naturally minded and wanted someone who offered like non toxic options and others don't care at all, even still now.

Ashlee Black: Even though it's always been like on my business card, mostly minded. Some people don't know what that means anyway. Right. I knew that I needed to, yeah. I just couldn't figure it out. Like, well, and like I said, part of it was being like that imposter syndrome that was holding me back from fully doing it, but I What did that 

Sam Varner: feel like? What, like was it concerned that.

Sam Varner: It would dry up your client base or like, where 

Ashlee Black: was your, it was concerned [00:07:00] that we'll mostly just like your medical side, mostly on the side of social media because the social media, all it takes is for you to do a real claiming a thing. Like, like I don't call myself a holistic esthetician because there are holistic estheticians who truly have a license saying holistic esthetician.

Ashlee Black: So it's kind of like this. This tricky area the same way there's also oncology safe estheticians. I provide oncology safe facials. I still like, I made sure before I even offered that to anyone that I had all the training that I needed in order to do that. Because it's a medical term. So I just, I wanted to be really careful and I still have to be careful.

Ashlee Black: With everything you say, like I said, on Instagram and social media that I'm not a holistic esthetician, I'm holistic minded, I offer holistic facials that use holistic techniques with certain massage [00:08:00] techniques, Guasha, cupping and then non toxic skin care. So, partnering with Green Envy was a big part of that. The education that they've provided their marketing, like all the things, the tools that I was so missing, now I finally am getting.

Ashlee Black: Yeah. That's interesting. How much the partnership with the product base, how much that then is going to dictate how you're talking about what you're doing, right? 

Ashlee Black: Right. It's just yeah, it's how my mind works because I'm so Focused on like said health and wellness knowing what's in all of my things. It's all the things I give my kids, right? Knowing the ingredients and so I just didn't want to be Not true like not staying kind of yeah staying in line with my value of what I wanted out of my business it's still tricky, you know, I still, like, I have a peel called the Biorepeel that is great super viral, beautiful results on the skin, and I still [00:09:00] offer it to people.

Ashlee Black: If someone comes in and they truly, they say, like, I'm looking for non toxic options, then Green Envy has clean peels. Biorepeel is not clean. They have dyes in it. They have acids that, you know, are not considered non toxic. So I still have those options for people. It's, you know, I'm still results driven.

Ashlee Black: So it's still like having that initial consultation and figuring out what's going to fit that person's needs where their priorities are, where they're, yeah, right. 

Sam Varner: I think, yeah, and I think That's probably very similar in trajectory of so many business owners, right? Where it's, we start a business, we get into it, we get going.

Sam Varner: A lot of times people are offering everything to everybody, like trying to just, I just need clients. I need you to come in. Okay. Now I'm pivoting a little bit, pivoting a little bit. And now it sounds like you're at that position now where you're like. No, this is the mission, the vision, the values of my company.

Sam Varner: Yeah. And therefore the rest of, [00:10:00] you know, my operation is going to start working in that direction. Right. That same way. And I think that's probably very familiar story to so many business owners, no matter the industry, what that looks like over time. 

Ashlee Black: Right. 

Sam Varner: What do you think it's in, I want to know, Tara, a little bit, your opinion on the social media.

Sam Varner: Kind of the idea of what you can say on social media and the perception of what you say on social media and how impactful that can be. 

Tara Dotson Riley: So how have you been navigating that so far over the last year and a half? 

Ashlee Black: I mean, I'm really, so, so a little bit that I forgot to mention is that at GLOW the last five years, yeah, five years.

Ashlee Black: I guess it was four years in total. I did their social media. Okay. So I did all of their marketing emails, all of their Instagram posts. I just kind of got put in that role because we didn't have anyone else. I was the age. It became your job. Here, do this. I was like that age who understood [00:11:00] it. Some of the people there were like, nah, nope, I don't want anything to do with it.

Ashlee Black: So I just kind of figured out, as far as the marketing goes, I figured out things, Canva, things like that. With time. And that was on the medical aesthetic side. You know, figuring out terminology. You can't make claims, or if you talk about Botox, you've got to provide the legal little thing they want.

Ashlee Black: The disclaimer. With it. Things like that. So, I knew that I had to be careful. Basically, anything you post, even with your partnerships with certain brands, like you can't post things Without their permission, or posting major discounts on, or prices on things when you're not supposed to, things like that.

Ashlee Black: So, I'm just always really cautious, and I also, I feel like more and more my, my, my posts have to be more vague, I don't want to say vague how do I say it? But, I, it, aesthetics is tricky, because you don't want to post [00:12:00] something and be like, Here's a perfect skincare regimen da. Because it's not true, right?

Ashlee Black: Every single person needs a customized regimen. And so I, I don't post things like that. I feel like I'm kind of like slowly filtering what I post because so many things, I'll start to work on something and I'm like, no, I can't say that because someone's gonna read that and believe that's true for them.

Ashlee Black: And even though like I'll put like asterisks here, like disclaimer. This isn't, this is not okay to you if you have severe acne or like if you have oily skin, like, you know, things like that. So it's just being careful with what I post really, like, not really detailed stuff, but more like, hey, here's a little bit of what I do.

Tara Dotson Riley: If you want to learn more, come have a consultation with me. Like, you know, things like that. It's really more, I'm trying to take it more of that route of drawing in the client's and like, maybe things that are gonna help [00:13:00] me create a connection with them on a personal level but not so much, like, try to be like, answer every single skin care concern question on my Instagram page. 

So shifting from a more, specific educational route to, broader promotional, like, this is what I do. Come see me for a consultation and like we can talk about your specific case. Yeah, I mean, does that make sense what I'm saying?

Tara Dotson Riley: Yeah There has been a little bit of a shift because it was like very everybody do educational show the exactly like X Y Z of what you're doing and all of that. Yeah, and there's been a little bit of a shift to including other kinds of content and remembering also to promote like What you're doing, what your services are, all of that.

Tara Dotson Riley: But there is still that educational component because that's such a strong thing of like, why would someone come to you? Like, and being able to balance that. Showing your expertise without overshowing it and then confusing people on like, okay, no, that doesn't actually apply to you. So it is a balancing act [00:14:00] and So are you doing your own social media now?

Tara Dotson Riley: Yeah, I do my own 

Ashlee Black: My goal would be to hand it off 100 percent as soon as possible, because it's not something I put a ton of my time in. Like, I, definitely in the past I put way too much time into it, and it doesn't give enough back.

Ashlee Black: Usually, you know, you work so hard on a post, and you get a couple likes, and you're like, Ah, like, that was like three hours. So, that's kind of one thing that's kind of pushed me to doing less of it. 

Tara Dotson Riley: What has your focus been marketing then? Like, how are you? 

Ashlee Black: I mean, I do weekly emails for my clients.

Ashlee Black: Okay. I do email marketing to them with whatever specials I have going on. I try to do something a little bit educational. Or I'll take, like, an educational post I did on Instagram, easily copy it, write it to the email, and save time.

Ashlee Black: So vice versa. So it's really, I mean, my main goal is just client retention, right? And then getting them to, like, love it enough, they're referring their friends and family, so I'm [00:15:00] incentivizing them to refer people. But yeah, client retention, following up with them, post treatment, you know, making sure they love it.

Ashlee Black: looks and feels all of that. I see that has way more value for sure. That personal 

Tara Dotson Riley: connection does have a lot of value. Like that personal referral of, Oh, I go here. 

Ashlee Black: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I've done a little bit of like So, I've done like little giveaway boxes in some businesses around me. Okay. So like, it's just a little like, you know, acrylic little giveaway box and it'll say like, you know, enter for a free facial.

Ashlee Black: So, they provide their name, email, phone number and then I'll end up following up with them. So, I'll say like, hey, you know, either they're the winner, right, when I do the drawing, but then even if they didn't win, I still send them like a little gift card, you know, credit towards a facial. Even sending out those 25, you know, those 25, you know, towards a facial. That's almost like 25%, or 25 percent off. People don't [00:16:00] take it. So I'm like, what else can I do? And I'm not like, my personality, I'm not going to keep messaging them, or bugging them.

Ashlee Black: Like I'll give them maybe one, One more reminder, like a month later, like, hey, don't forget. But it's just not my personality. That's 

Tara Dotson Riley: really hard to overcome. 

Ashlee Black: Yeah, 

Tara Dotson Riley: it's like not 

Ashlee Black: having that's where I'm like, I kind of, I want to hand it off. Yeah, somebody else can do it. It's not me. Don't make them complain.

Ashlee Black: No, that's not me. That's my marketing team. They're the ones bugging, you know. It's interesting you say that though, right? , the follow up strategy on the marketing, despite the fact that we don't like doing it, becomes the thing that will make the difference.

Sam Varner: Right. Right, so As a business consultant, I try and spend the time, like, to figure out, like, there's a way you'd be willing to do it. 

Ashlee Black: Yeah. You 

Sam Varner: just maybe, the way that you've done it, or the way that you've seen, is you're like, I, that's not palatable to me, I don't want to do it like that, that feels stalkery, and it feels salesy, and it feels gross, and I don't want to.

Sam Varner: Right. But so that the time spent [00:17:00] on those marketing things actually is paying off more strategically, it does require an obscene amount of follow up. And there's no way around it because people are distracted 

Ashlee Black: in their lives, 

Sam Varner: right? So they're like, oh yeah, that 25 bucks, that's great, okay, yeah, I'm gonna do that.

Sam Varner: And then whatever happens, and unless you're showing back up and they're like, oh yeah, I forgot. Until they actually get themselves from That position all the way into you takes forever, 

Ashlee Black: right? 

Sam Varner: So that's one thing where as a business owner, I'm trying to determine To learn that skill of what am I willing to do and how can I teach myself to be comfortable to do?

Sam Varner: Yeah, that follow up. Yeah makes a big difference. Yeah, right 

Ashlee Black: do this. It was really say like it takes ten touches 

Sam Varner: minimum Like Like seven seven to fourteen And it depends on the price point, right? And it depends on the other, like, hurdles that are presented. So, things like if [00:18:00] you're dealing with clientele that have never had a facial.

Sam Varner: Let's just say they've never gone, never done any skin care besides, like, CVS. Aisle of, like, oil of Olight. That's what they've done. And so there's a huge amount of, they don't know what they don't know. 

Ashlee Black: There's a 

Sam Varner: lot of apprehension of, like, will it hurt? Do I have to? Do I have to have fillers?

Sam Varner: Do I have to have Botox? Does a facial feel like am I even a person who does those things? I don't know I'm nervous to go in and feel like I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know what questions to ask I'm feeling frumpy and I already don't want to be any like the amount of stuff that you're trying to overcome Yeah, is shocking.

Ashlee Black: Yeah, 

Sam Varner: right all of which or most of which you don't care You're right. I can help you with your skin. You have skin I can help you with your skin What are your, what are you trying to accomplish? I can work with you. Right? So it's, that's the seven to fourteen touches. So if you kind of think about, like, if you're hand holding a friend through, [00:19:00] from here to here in their life, and you're like, we're going to have this conversation fourteen times before you actually get brave enough and bold enough to take that next step, 

Ashlee Black: you would 

Sam Varner: do that.

Sam Varner: And so if you can make those sales follow ups. feel like you're just like, okay, you're not ready yet, but I'm going to help you with this little piece of education or I'm going to speak to you in this post in a way that you're like, Oh, okay. She's going to be so welcoming and accepting of me or you know, whatever, each little barrier, you kind of like help pull that down with all of your follow ups.

Sam Varner: It makes it feel better too. Like from your side, you're not like, Oh, I'm a sales person for 

Ashlee Black: me. I feel like I'm not good with words. And it's just not one, like, you're really good with words. I am not good with words. And so, I always feel like, I'm like, well, how am I supposed to say this? I feel like, I have to, I'm like, I feel like my only option is to copy the message I already sent and send it again.

Ashlee Black: And that's not getting, like, you can only do that so many times. [00:20:00] You'd be surprised 

Sam Varner: how infrequently people will notice that you said the exact same thing 26 times over here. But if it's in a text 

Ashlee Black: though, they can see that, they likely, unless they do it in a text message. Well, that's true. Yeah, if it's text message.

Ashlee Black: Unless they say the same message over and over. So that's where I'm like, okay, it makes sense to change up what you're trying to say to them. 

Tara Dotson Riley: And how, and where you're saying it too. Yeah, that's true. Because it doesn't just have to be 14 text messages. Right. It could be a mixture of. There's an email, a text, an Instagram post that it might just be speaking directly to this kind of person and feeling that, but it still counts as a touch because they're seeing it and they're like, oh, no.

Tara Dotson Riley: Right, right. Yeah. 

Ashlee Black: So, but yeah, those are things I'm like, that is my weak point and that's why I'd like to pay someone to just do it for me. 

Sam Varner: Well, I'm a big believer in outsourcing. Yeah. Because we can't be as business owners no matter what our business is, right? Yeah. To try and be the best at every single line item that has to happen in the business is unrealistic, right?

Sam Varner: We don't have time for that, and I don't, I [00:21:00] would like to know a little bit about most things, but not everything about everything. 

Ashlee Black: So my sphere, and this is something like a lot of other people probably come saying, is that I know of med spas that have paid tons of money for social media marketing and got nothing out of it.

Ashlee Black: Or like their posts are still like, you know, this is a professionally made post, right? They did all the right things and it's still only getting a couple of likes. And so like, is it the marketing team? Is it just Instagram's algorithm that's so, so difficult? Like, do y'all still find like, even as marketing professionals, like, it's just really hard to get people to engage?

Tara Dotson Riley: It really depends. And then it's also, instead of looking at likes as your metric of, like, was this post successful? There's so many other analytics that you can dive into that'll be like, [00:22:00] okay, yes, public facing this got four likes. But, it also got maybe ten saves. So, ten people saw it. Or it got sent to X amount of people, and then all of a sudden now I have three bookings.

Tara Dotson Riley: Like, okay, maybe ten people saw it, but out of what? 10. Three of them were qualified leads and working making sure having those analytics in place and also making sure whoever you are to your marketing has reporting and they're talking to you about what we're seeing. This is what you're actually getting out of it and also having them be willing to pivot the strategy if it's not working.

Tara Dotson Riley: Right. Which is sometimes not the case. It's like, no, this is what you get. And yeah. Cause there's just so many marketing. 

Ashlee Black: People out there, right? And it's like, then how do you know who to trust because it is like I said, it's a big investment. Like it's not cheap. And it's something like I said, like I want to outsource because I know it's so valuable.

Sam Varner: Yeah. Well, especially in this industry. Yeah. You, I don't, I say that, but I don't know [00:23:00] that there's an industry that doesn't need a presence in the online world now. Right. So. Social media is now the online world. 

Ashlee Black: Yes. 

Sam Varner: Your website needs to exist in the online world. People need to be able to find you legitimately.

Sam Varner: Most business owners aren't necessarily like shaking hands with a person and then they become a client every single time. So you have to be able to pull people from your online presence into your location and it has to feel the same doing that as if I walk by and happen to walk in the door. It has to feel the same.

Sam Varner: So, taking that as the strategy, that's how you increase that client base, right? Because you're right, like you have your network that you've established your circle of friends and family and the people that you've created as clients, and those are gonna be your lifers, like they're gonna, they're gonna exist and support you.

Sam Varner: But there comes a point where you're like, and now I need to go to the next level out, like I need to somehow breach [00:24:00] beyond where I've accessed right now. And that's what your social media potentially or your email marketing or your in person networking, which I know you do a lot of as well.

Sam Varner: All of those pieces now have to start really supporting and driving business to that people I don't know or people that don't even know me through somebody else. I need them to now know me. Which can be, that can be a challenge. Like it can be it's a big growth step from that stage of like, okay, this is kind of working.

Sam Varner: People are coming in. People I know, they're coming in, they're telling their friends, they're coming in, that's cool. And then all of a sudden that can get very like, slow. And it can dry up a little and you're like, okay, now I got to find new people. Where do I do that? Have you found any major surprises as you've been growing your business in terms of like, who's been super supportive or who you anticipated supporting more and that you haven't seen them show up or have you?

Sam Varner: Found people that you're like, I never thought this group would [00:25:00] be So involved and yet they have been. 

Ashlee Black: Nothing too surprising. Okay, so if you've ever heard the phrase a Client will become a friend. 

Sam Varner: Yes, I've heard that. 

Ashlee Black: It's very active. So yeah, so I mean I grew up in Katy I Know a lot of people in this area.

Ashlee Black: And I have Support in the sense of like Instagram and Facebook and people liking and sharing things like that But as far as physically coming in like my mom my aunts like they're like from the very beginning day one They were in supporting me. But as far as like friends, yeah obviously like friends who live out of town, I Don't expect But that's been one thing.

Ashlee Black: But again, like I kind of knew already. I've been in aesthetics Like longer than just my business, right? 

Sam Varner: Yeah 

Ashlee Black: And, you know, it's one of those things, like, you go out with friends, or season one, and they're like, Oh my gosh, your skin, like, tell me what to do, tell me what to do. I'm like, well, I've been Come and [00:26:00] see me!

Ashlee Black: Come see me! Yeah, like, but people always want, like, mini consults at a bar. 

Tara Dotson Riley: Huh. 

Ashlee Black: For free. Which I'm totally fine. I'm totally fine. I do it. But A lot of times those conversations get forgotten, too. Yeah. And then, never revisit it. 

Sam Varner: Never revisit it. The nachos show up and then you're distracted. 

Ashlee Black: Or maybe a couple of years later, they make their way in.

Ashlee Black: But not really too surprising in that side of it. I will say, like, the Katie Women in Business, like, I mean, I love the organization. It's been so much fun to, like, meet other women in business. And so supportive, like the people who I have coming in because so and so sent them in because, you know, they were coming to me, I was like, Oh, I didn't even know she knew who I was.

Ashlee Black: So that's really nice. It's like, yeah, that was something. And I only got to go to a couple meetings. But it's, it was really valuable. And it continues, you know, anytime I can make connections with other businesses, it's really valuable because I mean, I love supporting. Others, and [00:27:00] yeah.

Tara Dotson Riley: Yeah. Well, and going back to like, all of the people you have on social media that will like a post and do all that, but then they're not actually coming in for facials, that's why I don't even consider likes as part of a successful campaign. Right. Because people will like a photo and they have no intention of doing anything.

Tara Dotson Riley: Right. So seeing like that, yeah, the back end of like, okay, well, what are who are we actually looking for? Right. What actually transforms into ROI. 

Ashlee Black: Yeah. The other problem I have with like, Instagram, I know that my face is supposed to be on camera. Like, I know, like, that. And any time I post a picture of myself or my family or whatever, it gets a million, like, like so much attention.

Ashlee Black: Like, and I know part of that's Instagram. Like, it pops up easier also. Yeah. With the face. Yeah. Then people see it. Because people like people. Yeah, but as far as like being like, I'm supposed to be doing reels, putting my face on the [00:28:00] camera. No, I'm like figuring out every way I can do it without putting my face on the camera.

Sam Varner: Luckily, there are a number of ways you can do it without. Yeah. 

Ashlee Black: So that's another thing is like when you have someone telling you like, Nope, this is what we're going to do today. Sit there and say this. That's the 

Tara Dotson Riley: great thing about having someone else. And want 

Ashlee Black: someone to record it because I will attempt to.

Ashlee Black: And, like, you know, I'll set up the camera, I'll do whatever, and I'll look at it and I'm like, Oh my god, no, I'm not posting that. That did 

Tara Dotson Riley: not turn out how I thought. No 

Ashlee Black: not. The lighting, like, well, for one, like, the room I'm in, the lighting is, like, horrendous. So no matter what I do, like, everything looks awful that I don't ever post anything that I make in there.

Ashlee Black: But yeah, so it's like all these things I'm like, I know I should be doing. It's just, I'm like, eh, you know, I was like, eventually I'll, yeah, one day, one day. Oh, in 

Sam Varner: the one day file. Okay. Okay. Yeah. 

Ashlee Black: So I hired a business coach last year for for about six [00:29:00] months. And one of the first things I asked her was like, okay, how important is Instagram really? Like how much should I really care?

Ashlee Black: It's like, don't care. Don't even waste your time on it. Like totally nix it. 

Tara Dotson Riley: Okay. 

Ashlee Black: And so we focus a lot more on email marketing and kind of fine tuning that. But her thing was that when you send out an email, your subject line needs to be hitting a pain.

Ashlee Black: Every time. Like, hit a pane so they want to open that email And that's, again, it comes down to, that's not my personality. Like, I'm creating an email headline that goes are your wrinkles looking just awful today? You know? Great, I always already thought that when I look in the mirror. That clickbait that she wanted me to create.

Ashlee Black: And I would do it, and I just didn't feel like, I'm like, this is not me. Like, I would send it, and we'd do our follow up, and she'd be like, oh, look how many, you know, what is your click percentage? But it almost always [00:30:00] is right at about 70 75%. Whether it's a nice, friendly headline, subject, or a clickbait, you know, hitting their pain type of thing.

Ashlee Black: So my curi I was curious to ask you, like, is it really, truly, like, that big of a difference? Or is it better to kind of fit with your personal, like, my That's what I'm looking for. Like how I would talk. Like, that's not, cause otherwise, the other one's not me. Like, at all. 

Tara Dotson Riley: So, it really depends on, so you weren't doing Instagram or anything, so how were you even getting people into your list?

Ashlee Black: I mean, I would do like the occasional, but as far as like, devoting time, like, into it I, That wasn't a main focus. It wasn't like a focus. It was my email marketing. Doing the giveaway boxes where I was building my list. Getting people on my email list. And just being consistent. So her thing was like consistency, follow ups, all of that.

Ashlee Black: So every week sending out an email, [00:31:00] really consistent. But just, yeah. 

Tara Dotson Riley: Yeah, subject line definitely matters. You may not be seeing a difference with the open rate because a lot of people open their emails just to mark them as read. But if you see a difference in people engaging with the email, so that's where you're really looking as far as like What was the success of that email?

Tara Dotson Riley: Yeah but Like with the subject line if it doesn't feel true to your brand then I wouldn't do that. Yeah Especially if you were like sending it and you're feeling like I don't like that. 

Ashlee Black: I feel icky 

Tara Dotson Riley: about that. Yeah, and so maybe there's a different way to Yeah. Or a softer way. Or like, maybe a more educational approach.

Tara Dotson Riley: Right. For you. Or a more. Right. Promotional route. As well. But it does have to offer something of value in that email section. For sure. Yeah. Whatever that value is. Yeah. But it doesn't have to make you feel icky. Yeah. Yeah. But, yeah, because you're competing with, people get hundreds of emails every single day.

Tara Dotson Riley: Right. Like, from every business they've ever interacted with. Right. So that's [00:32:00] what you're competing with. So it does have to have something that will spark them of like, 

Ashlee Black: Yeah, that was just one thing. I was like, I just, cause you know, it kind of was just like that. That's how you're going to get people to open it.

Ashlee Black: But I've seen it. I've seen it work the other way too. Yeah. 

Sam Varner: What did you get as an ROI? So in terms of when you look at that six months that you were consistently doing emails, were you seeing an uptick of people coming from that and actually showing up? and booking with 

Ashlee Black: you? I mean of the coaching, like the coaching in general.

Ashlee Black: Yeah. I wouldn't say I got as much as I had hoped. I,

Ashlee Black: we didn't, like we didn't align in her marketing tactics and what like felt right for me and my business. And I would tell her that sometimes she's like, well, just trust me, just do it. And I would do it, even with ads. I even had some Facebook ads. Same thing it's, the headline was [00:33:00] something of pain and, sale, like, to me, like, saledy, not at all my type of tone.

Ashlee Black: Were you feeling 

Tara Dotson Riley: icky, like, the life insurance sales of, you might die, so get this? Like, that kind of icky? Not to that extent, but yeah. Okay, but like, you're not going to dye. But like, like, do you feel ugly? 

Ashlee Black: Yeah, like, like you said, like, and it was always, yeah, when it, with the aesthetics, of course, like the pain is always like, I feel like, oh, like, yeah, the wrinkle, like, like all that. And I'm like, that's not who I'm looking for. It's because what I do is holistic aesthetics. I'm like, I'm all about embracing like the natural beauty someone has and enhancing it. Right. And of course, like med spots can be the same thing. But they are much more like someone truly is like, Oh my gosh, these wrinkles got to go.

Ashlee Black: Well, guess what? They can get Botox in two weeks later, those wrinkles are gone. But I'm not in that 

Sam Varner: at all. 

Ashlee Black: And I'm [00:34:00] not looking for clients who are wanting that 

Sam Varner: to 

Ashlee Black: change that fast. They want healthier skin. They want. Yeah. It's 

Sam Varner: just a different 

Ashlee Black: offering. 

Sam Varner: Right. That's not on your, that's not on your menu.

Sam Varner: Right. Yeah. 

Ashlee Black: So, going back to your question I just felt like we didn't align on a lot of it. I did learn a lot of insight and like different techniques and ways to like, like I said, like the giveaway boxes. That was something that she had me do and it was successful. It's helped me connect with businesses as well as other prospective clients.

Ashlee Black: And something I'll continue to do because it's really pretty simple. People respond pretty well with it. It's easy to put your name in a box. 

Sam Varner: It is, but then your downside to that sometimes is that a lot of people put their name in a box with no intention of, right? Like it, it's a little bit harder to be a qualified lead, right?

Sam Varner: Like it's a lead, it's a name, it's somebody you didn't know yesterday. Yeah. But you still then have to like, chase it down a little 

Ashlee Black: bit. Right, right. Right? For longer. Yeah, [00:35:00] that's what I'm saying. Like I did the follow ups, but continuing the follow up and not letting go. to be that, like, annoying person and regretting that they put their name in that box.

Ashlee Black: Now this girl won't leave me alone. 

Sam Varner: Yeah. Almost never is that the thought. 

Ashlee Black: Yeah. I know we think, like, we internalize that 

Sam Varner: as like, I am being so pushy, I am being so persuasive, I am trying to chase these people down, but the reality is people very rarely think like that. And most times when you talk to clients, if you get, you know, if you get somebody that you're like, wow, I've talked to them 10 times.

Sam Varner: Before they came in eventually you can ask the question like what finally got you in the door like it I pursued you for a long time. Yeah, what happened and usually it is your persistence was very impressive you kept Connecting with me you kept bringing this back to the forefront you realized it was something I was interested in enough And you kept talking to me about it.

Sam Varner: So it's funny the different perspectives sometimes people that they [00:36:00] Are finding you annoying? We'll give you the hardest of no's. Right. Stop calling me, you're annoying, click goodbye. Or they'll unsubscribe. Or they'll unsubscribe. Or they'll just disengage completely. Whereas if they're still answering your call, or responding to an email, or opening every email you say, even if it's, they're not doing anything with it, but they open every email, you can start to be like, you know what, that Sally, she's at least as annoying.

Sam Varner: Just moderately interested. That's a buying signal. It's not a big one. But it exists, right? She's not shutting you down. She hasn't kicked you right out of her email box yet. 

Ashlee Black: Yeah. 

Sam Varner: Okay, so email marketing and giveaways were kind of your primary marketing strategy. With a little bit of social media kind of peppered in there.

Sam Varner: Yeah, 

Ashlee Black: I mean I've had people, it's, you know, I can't even say like, Like I have had people come see me because they found me on Instagram. I've had people just find me on Google. Okay. And then, you know, friends of family referrals, things like that. There's not, [00:37:00] like, I haven't found like the thing that's like, it's just kind of here and there.

Ashlee Black: Yeah. Spoiler. There's not one thing. Yeah. It's all the things I figured. No, 

Tara Dotson Riley: it's all the things that work together. I every, 

Ashlee Black: I mean, I wasted way too much money on Yelp. Oh no. Yeah. Now they won't make me alone. Yeah. . But I learned. 

Tara Dotson Riley: Yeah, that's the goal. Learn early and without spending too much.

Tara Dotson Riley: Yeah. 

Sam Varner: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So looking at, so we have an idea of your marketing. So what about for me? 

Ashlee Black: I mean, so my end goal would be to have a bigger space, potentially hire a person. I'm not looking to get a big business going or anything like that because I don't think I'm going to for a while.

Ashlee Black: But , like, how do I do it? 

Sam Varner: Okay. All right. 

Ashlee Black: How do I go from here to there in the next, all right. I, what do you see?

Ashlee Black: Is the thing that gets people to [00:38:00] that, like, next level? Okay. It is probably figuring out how to get enough leads in the door. It is that sales side of things where you can start to feel secure yourself that there are going to be leads coming in frequently enough that then you're closing into clients.

Ashlee Black: Right. That then you can take whatever that next growth leap is. Right. And so for you, if it's moving from your current location to a bigger location, even if it's as yourself not hiring that second person right yet. The number one thing you have to do is know that you're reliably going to have cashflow.

Sam Varner: Right. And the only way to do that is lean in really hard on that sales side of things so that you're like, okay, how do I get from leads coming in this way and that way, but not that I can rely on yet. So looking at that just increasing that consistent monthly revenue to the point where you're like, okay at this point wherever that number is for [00:39:00] you, I could afford that next bigger space and I could do it without causing myself to have a heart attack.

Sam Varner: Yeah, without feeling like you have to be there 24 hours a day, right? So it's that piece. So really leaning into how do you deal with The follow up in a way that feels good to you. How do you deal with doubling down on what's working? So if it's like, okay, I got X number of leads, so maybe I would go back and say, evaluate where are exactly, what percentage of your business comes from what area?

Sam Varner: So if it's clients, referrals, if it, if that's where your number one source of leads is coming. Then, okay, for the next 90 days, I'm going to work on a referral strategy only. And all I'm going to focus on is getting those people to push me out to more of their people that I don't know yet. 

Ashlee Black: Yeah. So 

Sam Varner: how am I going to do that?

Sam Varner: Okay. I'm going to do [00:40:00] incentives and gift cards and rewards or contest to your current client base for the referrals and just trying and then knowing on the back end, you've spent a lot of time. Working on the customer service side on the back end. So like once I'm a client, you're doing follow up care, you're calling you're doing all the things that like they'll stay being a client if you can get them in there, they're good.

Sam Varner: So that's what I would do. So if it's referrals is the biggest, then lean in and double down on getting more referrals and figuring out all the ways you can do that. Or if it's actually gotten a lot more people than I thought from Instagram, then I would be leaning into, okay. Either I'm going to do this myself and I'm going to really focus on learning how to do this or I'm going to outsource it to somebody and I'm going to take the financial dollars for that knowing that I'm creating an ROI from it.

Sam Varner: So it's like, okay, if I get this on my own with my, however much I'm currently doing, I'm going to spend this much [00:41:00] money. I'm going to hire somebody to help me and then that's it. I'm going to really double down on that for no strategy, less than 90 days. because you won't see any results from anything yet.

Sam Varner: It takes at least 90 days and really at like 6 

Ashlee Black: months. 

Sam Varner: But that, it would be that evaluation piece first and then second just lean in on that and keep doing everything else at the level you're doing it right now. So just change one factor at a time. 

Ashlee Black: Yeah. 

Sam Varner: But Sales is the thing that will make you comfortable to go to that next step.

Ashlee Black: Basically all the things we've talked about that I 

Sam Varner: Yeah, all of the one day files. We just gotta open that damn thing back up and pull it out and be like, okay. So it's just I will say too, there's something to You having hired a business coach is huge because there's so much value that you get from that from somebody else's perspective and eyeballs on your business.

Sam Varner: So despite the fact that some of the marketing advice was a little bit kind of at [00:42:00] odds with what you're personally liking, I would go back and review what did I get from that? What did she teach me? What did I, what can I now see that she said to me that I can maybe implement? Or who else do I need to start helping me with what is next?

Sam Varner: Right? I'm a big believer, obviously, like I coach businesses, so I'm obviously a believer in it, but I always have a coach, but it's not always necessarily the same coach, right? So I am leaning into, if this is where I'm expanding my business, then I'm going to lean into that skill set, specific coaching, or I'm going to lean into like, I need to figure out my mindset, or I need to figure out my personal growth that's going to kind of align with all of it.

Ashlee Black: So. 

Sam Varner: I feel like sometimes as business owners, we spend a lot of time not reflecting on like the what's worked, what hasn't worked, and then what are my next steps coming from that evaluation too. Yeah. 

Ashlee Black: Yeah. 

Sam Varner: Yeah. So there's your road map. Just go back, look at everything. No, you're right though. I 

Ashlee Black: do need to [00:43:00] kind of go back with all my notes because I have tons and just kind 

Sam Varner: of reflect.

Ashlee Black: Yeah. Yeah. And 

Sam Varner: just knowing that it's, that. I don't know. It feels like I think for most business owners, I haven't found anybody yet that doesn't want to be like 10 steps farther than they are right now, myself included, right? Where we're always trying to like build to there. But we have to think about like, what's the first step, right?

Sam Varner: What's the first step I need to do? And then I'll make the decision on the next step, right? It's very easy to project forward and be like, okay, these big pie in the sky ideas that I want eventually. But you have to start with like, what's the one thing? What's that little bit that I have to do next? And that's the work piece, is holding ourselves accountable to that one next step and then the one next step and not just, 

Ashlee Black: you 

Sam Varner: know, that, that future daydream.

Sam Varner: That, that's always me anyway, like, I know. 

Ashlee Black: I think, I mean, definitely being pregnant is kind of making it difficult for me. Because I'm [00:44:00] like, you know, and that's why I'm like, one day I'm like, after baby. 

Sam Varner: Yeah, well, and the after 

Ashlee Black: baby file isn't 

Sam Varner: legit. Like, that's not delaying, that is a reality of knowing my house is about to be busier, I'm about to be balancing and managing three kids.

Sam Varner: That's not you procrastinating, that's just also reality talking where you're like, oh right, I don't have to do this, deliver the baby and two hours later be doing a social media post. But I do need to like, yeah, over the next month or so, like kind of focus on at least a couple things I can do prior.

Sam Varner: And what you can set yourself up for like as you're taking a little bit of downtime like how much automation or do you outsource? Marketing or social media for the duration so that you're not losing time so that it's like continuing that trajectory as you're Taking time to 

Ashlee Black: Yeah yeah. I appreciate it. Yeah. 

Sam Varner: Yeah. Well, we're excited. I think we're really grateful that you were able to come and get to do this in person.

Sam Varner: It's always really fun. Yeah. But just the level of kind of [00:45:00] sharing and like openness you have with, Letting everybody know like where you are and what you're doing and how much that can benefit somebody that is Earlier than you in the process or at the same stage as you and is like, oh man I'm alone like the only person this is happening to you and it's like no half the reason that we have this podcast is so We can open the doors to say no, you're not alone We all no matter your industry, but specifically in the aesthetics industry.

Sam Varner: You are not alone in these growth struggles and trying to figure out, like, how do I get from here to here 

Ashlee Black: and we're 

Sam Varner: all just doing it as we go. Right? So, we appreciate that.


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Sam Varner

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Tara Dotson Riley

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